[sohmer]

A couple years back now, when I began to write for other projects in film and television aside from LICD & LFG, I was informed that I had to join the Writer’s Guild of Canada. This wasn’t a choice, mind you, as it was either join the WGC or don’t do other projects.

I’ll be honest when I say I’m not a fan of what unions have become in this modern day and age. There was a time where they were integral in protecting the rights of the worker but in today’s climate, they seem to be just another bureaucratic/quasi-political body more interested in their own administrative positions than anything else.

Nonetheless it was a clear-cut, black or white decision. Despite what I believed, I joined the WGC. I have no doubt that I will continue bitching about that fact for years to come.

I joined the union because I had no other choice in furthering my career.

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, is the National Cartoonist Society.

Several months ago, I made the decision, the choice to apply for associate membership into the NCS (associate because I’m a writer, not a drawing-type person). I wanted to become part of this organization. Not because I had to, or was forced to, but simply because of the members; a group of cartooning professional I’ve admired and respected since I was but a wee lad.

Last night, I received my acceptance into the NCS and I can’t remember the last time I felt so honored, or so humbled.

Two very different organizations with two very different goals. One was pushed on me, while the other I sought out.

Which group do you think I'll invest for time and effort into?

- Because I can.

Quote of the Day

“On any given Sunday you're gonna win or you're gonna lose. The point is - can you win or lose like a man?
- Tony, from Any Given Sunday (1999)

[Oradan]

How long do you have to be in the Comic bis to sign up for them? Is it for canada only?

[Neistle De'Rail]

Congratulations!

And if you see them tell Bill and Berkley to get back to work. The newpaper just hasnt been the same since Calvin and Opus left.

[Hobbes]

Hey now, I got a $5k college scholarship from my mother's union and a retroactive pay raise from the TAA (union for graduate student teaching assistants and project assistants). They ain't all bad.

[blakmage]

Personally i think it makes a big difference on where the union is and how powerful it is. The factory I work at is unionized, and upon getting hired i was given the choice of joining the union. Now I joined my union willingly and after having worked there for almost 3 years now I would do so again. The union I am part of has done a lot of good for the workers, higher wages, protecting jobs, going to bat for you if you and the company have a dispute, etc.

However I will say I have seen the opposite side also where a union is more trouble then its worth. So each to his own and I would say each union should be considered on its own merits just as there are good and bad people there are good and bad unions.

Just my 2 cents.

[Huttj]

My only personal union experience is from when I was a teaching assistant in grad school. Actually the TA union was underwritten by the United Auto Workers, for some reason dating back to when the TA union was formed (I think basically the UAW added their clout to help the TA union negotiate the needed benefits).

When they actually have the interests of the members in mind, they're great. Especially for something like Teaching Assistants at a state school, who are in more of a position to be $#!& on outside the public eye than some other occupations. When it was formed negotiated a pay raise with cost of living adjustments, has worked to ensure that, since the TAs are grad students, there are reasonable restrictions on how much they can be loaded down with so that they can still do their research and coursework of their own, etc.

However, it was optional to join, though admittedly a small amount got taken from your paycheck as dues anyway since they were representing you even if you weren't a member, and, well, some of what they had achieved was fairly recent, so it's not like you could argue it was just a bureaucracy or something. It feels skeezier writing that than it did at the time.

Also, the way it was set up, you were in the graduate program, THEN you learned about the union possibility. It was not a prerequisite to getting into the grad school program or anything, so you didn't have that side of things.

Unfortunately, whenever you have people in power, you can have them to varying degrees caring more about keeping and using that power than the responsibilities to the members who put them in power in the first place. I think that sentence can sum up a number of problems with unions, politics, religion, etc.

[Mr. Sable]

When Rick Green was writing for "Four on the Floor" the Writers Guild denied him work on "The Red Green Show", so he used an alias and called himself Enrico Gruen as a writer for that show.

Painfully restrictive, for sure.

[blizzarddemon]

Sweet dickens, nice work Sohmer!

[opocaj]

Because you can!

And the more I read, the more I like what you can.
Please go on like this

[fauconloyal]

i was just wondering why Lar's name isn't in the members list?
me thinks he should be recognized as an artist and, lets face it, a saint!
i'm putting forward the motion to get him canonized

[Sho Ken]

Congratulations on getting accepted. And I totally agree with you on the state of the unions in this day and age.

[DiMono]

I think it's absolute bullshit that the CWG, SAG, etc have been put in positions where they can mandate what other people can or cannot do. There is absolutely no good reason that you should be forced to join a union in order to work in a given industry.

As for unions in general, I place the collapse of the American auto industry firmly on their shoulders. They've turned into bully groups to push around employers rather than to protect employees, and they either need to be much more strongly regulated, or dissolved entirely. Such is my opinion.

[Shoran]

I congratulate you on your acceptance. However I must say, Unions are infact alot like any other forms of organisations and whatnot that affect the greater society, so that would include politics, etc. Each and everyone of them, there will be a group of people that are corrupt, and lie to get into power to do what they feel is right, but everyone will hate, and the group of people that actually think of others and know how to respond to certain things, I guess because I'm Australian, and only somewhat young, I can't give any good examples however my opinion on all this union business, I do believe that there should be some limitations on what they can do, they should not force upon anyone to do anything, but have guidelines, thus allowing those that join the union to follow those guidelines. Within their meetings, they should be discussing what could help the employers and employees, not what would help them... Because thats what most people that are greedy or corrupt in power do... Secretly further their own needs as inconspicuously as possible.

[~Psychotic~]

I don't post often but I do lurk and this has gotten me rather curious.

How, exactly, can the WGC (or any Writers Guild, for that matter) force you to not do a project? How can they just walk up to you and tell you "Nope, you're not doing this project."? How can they dictate that? This is what confuses me, nobody should be given any right to dictate anybodies work, and quite frankly, I fail to see how they can have the power to do that.

I don't see what possible repercussions could come from not joining them or ignoring their directives. They do not own your company, they do not own your mind or any of the material that YOU write, how can they punish you or restrict you in any way? I'm just going around in circles now but the question remains the same:

How can these people tell you what to do? What gives them the right and authority to say what writers can and cannot work on? And why do people even listen? I fail to see how it would be illegal, in any sense of the word, to ignore any of their commands. It's my idea, it's my project, I'll do it if I damn well please and nothing anybody says should stop me.

EDIT: And yes, congratulations for getting into the NCS!

This post has been edited by ~Psychotic~: 17 March 2010 - 01:00 AM

[robocarnage]

Hey Sohmer, i hear you regarding the WGC.
my dad writes animation, and has for nearly 16 years, and the WGC was basically, through his employers, financially penalizing him for NOT being a member, and now that he's a member, he still isn't guaranteed a minimum payment due to working in animation

i'm all for unions in most forms of work, especially among workers who work by contract, and not steady pay, but the WGC is a bullshit organization that can't get it's members what they need; GOOD FUCKING MONEY

This post has been edited by robocarnage: 17 March 2010 - 02:20 AM

[wallace]

As a member on IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees. Check the end of the credits of almost any movie or tv show for the logo.) I wanted to add some information.

First of all, anyone saying that the unions should be dissolved clearly has no idea of the working conditions of the film industry. As it is on a union set, the hours are long. The standard work week is 60 hours. On a non-union job, 6 days and 80 hours a week are not uncommon. If it wasn't for the union, people would be taken advantage of left and right. That's part of the reason why I sought to join the union. Plenty of people in my field (sound) are able to make good livings without ever joining. But the union provides rules and health insurance and support. I don't have to worry about not getting paid on a union job. They are there to look out for me.

I know that people work their entire lives in the film industry without joining a guild or union. It's not possible to do every job but even in the union its not possible to do every job(I am not to work on a non-union set). For example, an assistant director doesn't have to join the DGA/DGC. But if he wants to work for a DGA director he needs to join the DGA. I could have not joined the union and stuck with non-union features and commercials and reality shows.

The unions even things out. They make thousands of voices speak as one which is so vital in contract negotiations with large corporations.

On the other hand there are plenty of problems with the system and I'm sorry to hear about the troubles with the writers guild. I know of some fairly big directors that have had problems with their guild so you're not the only one who feels that the system is broken.

One last note:

I feel like some of you people need to go and research why the unions got started in the first place and all that they've done for the workers of the world(Guess whos responsible for the 40 hour work week.) Know what they were started for before you go writing them off.

EDIT:

To the guy who was wondering how the guild can keep someone off a project: Heres how it works usually(to the best of my knowledge): Once a production starts up they have the option to sign a contract with associated guilds and unions. Without this union people won't work on the project. On the other hand, if they do sign a contract then only guild/union members can work on a project(excepting permit hires and such). So if you make a project you can choose what you want to do.

2nd EDIT:

To the guy bashing SAG: They can't dictate what people can and can't do. They can strike which is a legal right in the United States at least. But they aren't the only game in town. Theres also AFTRA which is another acting union. Most the the TV pilots shot last year were AFTRA and not SAG.

in before tl;dr

This post has been edited by wallace: 17 March 2010 - 04:29 AM

[~Psychotic~]

Quote

I feel like some of you people need to go and research why the unions got started in the first place and all that they've done for the workers of the world. Know what they were started for before you go writing them off.

I know this isn't directed at me personally but allow me to give my 2c on the matter anyway (because I'm an egotistical prat and will do it anyway).

Whilst I understand the need for unions and how much good can come out of them, I want to know what gives something like the Writers Guild of Canada that much authority and power to stop someone from starting something they want to do, or restricting the way they want to do it. Unions are supposed to be a good thing (or at least that's how they were designed), they're designed to give better working conditions for employees whilst making reasonable compromises so that both parties (the workers and the company) aren't getting ripped off. Or at least that's how I understand it (and how sources explain it).

So whilst something like a trade union might be good, a "Guild" that forces you to join and then restricts your right to do anything, that's not a very good example of give a take. Clearly Sohmer did not want to be apart of the WGC, and I don't see why he should have to be to make other projects. As a freelance writer, director, artist, designer or whatever, why should I HAVE to join a "Guild" or "Union" if I do not want to? Where's the freedom in that?

Quote

To the guy who was wondering how the guild can keep someone off a project: Heres how it works usually(to the best of my knowledge): Once a production starts up they have the option to sign a contract with associated guilds and unions. Without this union people won't work on the project. On the other hand, if they do sign a contract then only guild/union members can work on a project(excepting permit hires and such). So if you make a project you can choose what you want to do.

Why the hell would I need to join a Guild for that purpose, however? What advantages does that have for me? I suppose it could help me find people to help me on that project but it shouldn't hinder my from starting the project at all, and it does then I just won't stand for that. I'll do whatever damn project I please* and nobody here nor there is going to tell me otherwise. If I want to do it alone I see no reason to join some little Guild who, from the sounds of it, just tries to dictate creativeness anyway.

* In accordance to local laws.

This post has been edited by ~Psychotic~: 17 March 2010 - 04:35 AM

[wallace]

~Psychotic~, on 17 March 2010 - 04:32 AM, said:

Quote

I feel like some of you people need to go and research why the unions got started in the first place and all that they've done for the workers of the world. Know what they were started for before you go writing them off.

I know this isn't directed at me personally but allow me to give my 2c on the matter anyway (because I'm an egotistical prat and will do it anyway).

Whilst I understand the need for unions and how much good can come out of them, I want to know what gives something like the Writers Guild of Canada that much authority and power to stop someone from starting something they want to do, or restricting the way they want to do it. Unions are supposed to be a good thing (or at least that's how they were designed), they're designed to give better working conditions for employees whilst making reasonable compromises so that both parties (the workers and the company) aren't getting ripped off. Or at least that's how I understand it (and how sources explain it).

So whilst something like a trade union might be good, a "Guild" that forces you to join and then restricts your right to do anything, that's not a very good example of give a take. Clearly Sohmer did not want to be apart of the WGC, and I don't see why he should have to be to make other projects. As a freelance writer, director, artist, designer or whatever, why should I HAVE to join a "Guild" or "Union" if I do not want to? Where's the freedom in that?

Quote

To the guy who was wondering how the guild can keep someone off a project: Heres how it works usually(to the best of my knowledge): Once a production starts up they have the option to sign a contract with associated guilds and unions. Without this union people won't work on the project. On the other hand, if they do sign a contract then only guild/union members can work on a project(excepting permit hires and such). So if you make a project you can choose what you want to do.

Why the hell would I need to join a Guild for that purpose, however?

The producers the he was working with signed a contract with the guild. The contract stated that only writers guild members could work on the project. That is the legal authority.

EDIT:
Well you would be violating contract and labor laws. Also the advantages for you are health insurance, set minimum rates of payment, actually getting paid and getting your royalties, having decent working conditions, etc... Also, as I said, on your own project you can do whatever you want.

This post has been edited by wallace: 17 March 2010 - 04:40 AM

[~Psychotic~]

Quote

Well you would be violating contract and labor laws. Also the advantages for you are health insurance, set minimum rates of payment, actually getting paid and getting your royalties, having decent working conditions, etc... Also, as I said, on your own project you can do whatever you want.

Most of those benefits are more for the extra workers on the project, not necessarily those who started it in the first place. Those who started it don't necessary want nor need help, they just want to continue on their projects individually and without interruption -- I am one of these people. I don't need help, I am my own designer, I don't feel then need to join a union for benefits I don't need. It is my project if I'm doing it alone in the first place!

Does something like a Guild affect those kinds of people, at all?

[wallace]

~Psychotic~, on 17 March 2010 - 04:47 AM, said:

Quote

Well you would be violating contract and labor laws. Also the advantages for you are health insurance, set minimum rates of payment, actually getting paid and getting your royalties, having decent working conditions, etc... Also, as I said, on your own project you can do whatever you want.

Most of those benefits are more for the extra workers on the project, not necessarily those who started it in the first place. Those who started it don't necessary want nor need help, they just want to continue on their projects individually and without interruption -- I am one of these people. I don't need help, I am my own designer, I don't feel then need to join a union for benefits I don't need. It is my project if I'm doing it alone in the first place!

Does something like a Guild affect those kinds of people, at all?

If its just you the guild will not care in the least I assure you. If your project is not a television show or film or play they are not involved anyway. Even if it it, those projects are not always union. Many low budget TV shows are non-union/non-guild. I mean, the Daily Show writers actually had to petition to join the writers guild because Comedy Central is not a WGA signatory.

If you create something, by all means you are entitled to do with it as you wish. Nobody is saying that you have to join a guild to do your own project. Plenty of big directors are not in the directors guild. Plenty of writers aren't either.

If you want to work on someones elses project, and that project has already signed a contract with a guild or union, you must be a member of that guild or union in order to be eligible to work on it. If its your own project, don't sign a contract with a guild or union and you can do whatever you want.

This post has been edited by wallace: 17 March 2010 - 05:01 AM