[sohmer]

In 2007, documentary director Michael Moore released his latest film, entitled “Sicko”. The premise of the doc was to compare the American health care industry to other nations, including Canada.

As a proud Canadian myself (eh?), I was forced to watch in disbelief as Moore painted the Canadian health care system as something other countries should aspire to. At several points during this segment, I kept waiting for a Unicorn to come out into the waiting room to announce that Cancer had been cured, and a free vaccine was now available to all.

At no cost, of course.

I feel the need to set a few things straight, and also to point my fellow countrymen to a site where they may be actually able to help affect some change.

The bottom line to the Canadian Health Care system is this: You get what you pay for.

With that in mind, this is the reality: It is absolutely impossible to get yourself a family doctor. A 5 hour wait in the Emergency Waiting Room is considered a brief stay. Government run means government bureaucracy. You will still pay for certain things, any thing that the government can cut out to trim their budget (Ie, a doctor’s note for school to explain why you missed class can cost you 10$). Need any kind of specific test or scan? You’ll get it, within 6 months to 2 years.

The reason I bring this all up today, is that the situation in my province of Quebec is ridiculously out of control, and quickly getting worse. Any of our readers who are Canadian, or better yet from Quebec, I would urge you to follow this link, read about the issues and get involved.

Simply because something’s always been done a certain way, doesn’t mean it’s right.

- Because I can.

Quote of the Day

“so, working for the government, you probably have to use public transportation?
-Michael Moore, Sicko (2007)

[brandon_ha]

It may have its (massive) flaws, but it's still better than the states. I'd rather not lose my life savings because I got sick.

[sirdave101]

I’m a West Island brat who was born in North Carolina to two Montrealers. Born with a heart defect I needed surgery when I was 5 that would have cost 500,000$ if they stayed the US. However my parents moved back here and paid 2 grand. Extra time in the waiting room when you have the sniffles seems like a fair trade off.

[sohmer]

There's pros and cons to every system, and I'm not saying the Canadian system is the worst. I'm saying that it can be improved, and needs to be improved and there are ways to do it that doesn't cost the government more money, rather could save them money.

[Benoit]

Definetly agree with all 3 of you. Yes, not paying is great. I'd rather wait than pay thousands of dollars for a cold.

But restricting numbers of PERM available for new doctors is outrageous. We wouldnt have to wait if it wasnt for the government restraining the numbers of family physicians. I mean, a simple infection for example, yeah its not bad, but we still have to go see a doctor to get an anti-biotic prescription. 7 hours. Thats a whole work day wasted and for some its the difference between having something to eat or not.
"We don't have enough money" Where is it then? Ooooh right, its in the educational reform thats brainwashing our youth and making them dumb as crabs: by making them pass even with straight Fs thinking they wont drop out thus making the country somewhat smarter overall? (yeah... RIGHT.) . Or maybe given to General Motors... whatever. Pisses me off.

Ben

[preske]

I didn't know it was that bad there in Canada, suddenly I'm glad I live in Belgium, even if it does mean higher taxes...

[kidri]

not to be picky or seem like a jerk
but the form was only in english (or all i saw was an english form ) so from past experience most people in power in Quebec will ignore anything in english well just because..
being a non french speaking person myself and not living in quebec, I find that some, not most, but some people tend to look down on non french speaking people. why...ummm that is a debate for another time.
so before you get a flood of complaints about it not being in french, save your inbox the enemna (lol) and put it up in french too.

be kind to people, you might need one for a shield in case of an emergency.

laterz.

[Radhamante]

Being from Montreal i find it true that the waiting is particularly extreme (once my sister had to wait something like 3 hours because she had a small allergic reaction) but i have to say that i am lucky not to have to go there regularly and never had to go there in a hurry.

But the fact that we get what we are paying for is not totally true, because paying to wait 5 hours in the emergency room is kinda stupid.
When i saw sicko i was surprised by the great britain health care service wich is kinda like ours but better administrated if i remember well. The fact that our service require lots of hours to wait is a proof that it has some failure in it but it is still better than the USA health care service. As for the letter the fact that it is in english doesn't encourage me to send it (for i am a french-speaker and proud of it) but i will because the situation requires it.

Also, i'm not certain that the unicorn will deliver the cure to cancer, it has better things to do^^

[psuedodragon]

We talked about this is my grade 12 english class (not actually sure why, but oh well)...

Within Canada there's differences in health care between the provinces. I live in Saskatchewan and I've never experienced some of the problems that've been mentioned thus far.

Admittedly if I want to get in to see my family doctor it can be three to four hours (she's really nice and everyone wants to see her), but if I'm not picky I can get in to see a doctor anywhere between half an hour and an hour. Occasionally it'll take longer, but that's more of a rariety. I'll also admit that some of the other doctors aren't very good at all, but you usually figure out who to avoid pretty quickly.

As for the ER... I don't think I've spent more than three hours there. Maybe I've just been lucky and hit days that aren't super busy (because I have heard of people spending several hours there) but still... it's not an all-the-time problem.

And for tests... well, I guess I've never needed anything too exotic, but usually they get you in fairly quickly for whatever you need.

One thing that I've noticed IS slow are referals to specialists. If you've asked for, or been told you need a referal it can take several months before you're contacted to set up the first appointment, which will be several months after that.

Over-all, I'm satisfied with the health care I recieve and as long as I avoid a few quack doctors I have no real complaints.

[DrunkenPolarBear]

Wow, I didn't realize it was so bad in other parts of the country. I'm from Winnipeg and I've never had problems like that. I was able to get my own doctor upon hitting 18 without issue. Due to my evening/overnight work schedule I've even used the hospital for checking on small things and never waited that long and I would be absolutely last seen. That said though, my mom's a nurse and I'm well aware of the many staff shortages on all levels in a hospital.

Lack of manpower is a major problem with the health care up here and the root of that is that people get their education up here and then move south to try and make massive paychecks with the American hospitals. The joy of privatisation is that you can toss a lot more money around.

Still, I'd rather socialized healthcare that allows everyone to - eventually - get care. There's a lot of services not covered by american health insurance and the extra taxes we pay still end up with us paying far less than americans. Not to mention the potentially devastating huge bills if you aren't covered by insurance.

[Stoop-Kid]

i live on the east coast, New Brunswick to be exzact. and I have a lipoma in my lower back that got infected ( or something like that, the doctor used alot of big words ) and anyways it wound up putting so much pressure on my spine that it slipped a disk out and im constantly dripping spinal fluid into my blood stream. As anyone with back problems knows, daily life is pretty damn painful when you have something sever happen to your spine. I went to my family doctor ( thank god i have one, no one else i know does! ) about the back pains when they started 8 months ago, so far iv gone for 1 x-ray. 1 CT Scan and had one visit by my family doctor. for both the xray and CT Scan i spent at least 16 hours in the hospital. I now need another X-ray ( why? ) and an MRI before they descide to do anything about it... iv been working construction on this back for the past 7 months... why cant they just make a descision and fix me already! they know the problem, the damn family doctor just wants me to keep coming back so he can keep making more money. no wonder theres a shortage of hospital staff, just go become a family doctor and fleece the healthcare system to become rich while your patients suffer!

[Samureye]

The fact that the Canadian Health Care System is free, doesn't necessarily mean that's a good thing. Sure, when it comes to things like Heart Surgery that would require a ton of money, that does indeed help.

Yet getting help in the Canadian Health Care System is very difficult. My mother is a Nurse and even she is frustrated with a system.

Doctor's are scarce because the Canadian Health Care System limits their income to a certain amount per year, and they can have more profitable practices in the health care system such as the United States.

Smaller communities are having less and less specialists. The specialists that are their too, are never quite as experienced or knowledgeable as those that live close to Major Cities or Major Health Care Schools such as McGill, or McMaster in Hamilton, Ontario.

Recently my brother fell over the handlebars of his bike and fractured his face. The first day my father took him to the hospital. The second day, for the MRI of his facial bones, I took him. As soon as we got there, it was a very quick process. Within 30 minutes we were in the MRI room and he had his face scanned. It was the 4 hours afterwards, waiting for the results, that was the pain in the ass. We'd learned the previous day that it takes 1.5 to 2 hours to get results from MRI's and whenever we looked over at the station where the staff were, the doctor's and nurses were always all talking and laughing and socializing. Which I find, unfortunately, is typical whenever I visit the hospital. And I've visited the hospital a LOT in the past 3-4 years.

Either way, it was only when it got close to six hours of waiting that my brother, who is not a patient person, was getting very restless and agitated because of the waiting. So I walked up to their station and told them we were going to leave very shortly. Only THEN did we start to get results and the ball rolling. Within 15 minutes a doctor came to see us. Within another 15 he had an appointment for a second opinion with a Plastic Surgeon and we were finally out the door.

The problem with the Canadian Health Care System isn't that our Health Care System doesn't work. It is our work ethic. It is an industry with unions and high-paid workers. If you are Canadian, next time you go to the emergency room wander around a little and look at the nurses stations where the doctors might be. If you see them socializing a bit and talking, instead of filing things and filling things out quickly, don't be surprised. The only time I've ever experienced expedient health care is when there is blood, or evidence of blood. It seems only then that results and health care is quick.

[DeepChaos]

As much as I see, here in Spain we have the same kind of Health care system, with same pro's and contras.

However, I think it's one of the very bests Health Care systems in the world since it is for everyone not just for those with money enough to pay. It is slow as hell, and, damn, when you hear "you'll have to wait 5 months" you feel like hitting someone and saying "now YOU wait 5 months until help comes here" but, in the end, it can't be other way.

You see, if you ask money, you have al the professionals, instalations, time you need to solve all people's illness but they have to pay. If they don't pay, you can't expect to have enough workers or materials for all so everything slows down.

In the end, you must pay with something.

I prefer to pay with time, since I don't have money enough for it.

[celt-gemini]

As much I'd like to condemn the Canadian health system, it would be extremely hypocritical of me...

You see, I come from Ireland where the health system is so bad a 10hr wait at Accident and Emergency is the norm; where the ratio of nurses to patients is the highest in Europe but they refuse to do even the slightest of administrative work and threaten to strike at the mere mention of a systemic reform; where, in a system in drastic need of beds, brand new wards remain unopened due to a lacking of funding and labour disputes...

A brief example: (which could only happen to us Irish)
Obesity is a growing problem here. Sure its nowhere near the level of the Americas (no offense ) but its there.
"Is anything being done>", you ask. No
"Have any studies been commissioned?" No
"Why?" It was deemed inappropriate
"Innappropriate? How???" Because, and I shit you not, our Health Minister, the shining example to us all, is obese!!!

[s2dio]

Urgh... I'd like to say the Health Care System is great, and it is... On paper.

The problem comes from those running it (closing a hospital because it doesn't bring enough revenue... in a free care system... the fuh?), and those that abuse it.

I have friends who work in 3 different ER's... They hand out more "Tylenol" and "Advil" than anything else.

Because of the powers that run the system (the brilliant Govt'), they create a bottle neck by making the smaller family practices impossible to financially maintain... So instead of having Hazel Hypochondriac running to her local Dr. for a paper cut, she ends up in the ER waiting room, just to get an alcohol wipe, and a band-aid.

The supply of care centers is dwindling, and society is increasing the paranoia over the smallest things... It's just bad news.

[pyromanioc]

It's interesting that you mention this today, as just a couple of days ago, Google's Cool Feed linked to this article. Now I'm in Chicago, and since I don't personally know any Canadians other than you, I was hoping that you could give me your impressions on the article. You'll always get the people with extreme views one way or another spouting the usual crap, but your analysis of random things (chainsaw usage, Red Bull consumption, etc.) seems to be fairly accurate.

Thanks,

Will

[yamikuronue]

*finally delurking to join in*

Here's the eternal delemmia - in a given area you have X amount of people and Y, much smaller, amount of doctors. The trick is to figure out who gets health care in what priority.

In countries with socialized medicine, it's taken for granted that all people should get care, and therefore, they shall be placed in lines and take their turn. This can result in long wait times but ultimately results in everyone being treated (or dying while waiting).

In America, the underlying assumption is that the only people that matter are the people with money - in fact, only the money matters, not the people at all. So the only people that get care are the people that can pay for it. This reduces the number of people needing care significantly. In fact, the more elaborate or specialized the care you need, the less wait times. Win-win! (That is to say, win for the medical industry and pharmaceutical companies in particular, and win for the rich people. Remember, the average and/or poor people don't count. They just don't go to the doctor unless they're dying, and then can't pay for treatment so die anyway or put themselves into massive debt and lose everything they have.)

I think I prefer a country whose basic assumptions treats people like people. The doctor shortage is pretty much worldwide.

[Junior Citizen]

Being a proponent of universal health care in the US, I am always looking for dispatches like the linked website - experience-based but non-anecdotal - from countries that have such a system. I look forward to the comments on this post.

I don't know enough about the Canadian federal government to know why each province is able to control its own hospital staffing. Why wouldn't the PERMs issue be decided nationally?

Sohmer, I appreciate the post but I did not see any suggestions on how to improve the system in Quebec without costing the government more money. Of course, I am making the assumption that the PERMs limitation is in place to control how many doctors the government has to pay every year.

[Hot SOS Reis]

Health care is one of those issues in America, like so many others, that is really pissing me off lately. The reason its so upsetting is that, like everything else, American LEADERS (not necessarily the educated public, but definitely the ignorant masses) are so stuck in their bi-partisan "us-or-them" ways that it would be laughable if I weren't paying the cost. The fact of the matter is, much like most of life, a balance is required here. It is not impossible to offer government-issued health care for those who need it, without still allowing private health care for those who have the means and would prefer to go that route. Yes, the care recieved would be very different between the two, those willing to pay landing themselves much better care and doctors just by the nature of the system, but its better then if those recieving poor care instead receiving no care. There would be a lot of things to work out and manage, but it is not something that can't be done. We don't have to be either completely socialist or completely capitalist society. There is room for both ideas to meet in a middle ground, but the people in charge don't want to talk about that, because that's not what the ignorant masses who vote them into office WANT to hear. :/

[Toreshi]

Sohmer, the point you made about needing a specific test or scan really resonated with me. A coworker of mine has been out of work now for 2 years (that's right, TWO YEARS) because it took over a year to even get him in to SEE a specialist. Then the specialist insisted that he go for a particular test that took another 8 months, and finally, the test showed that he needed a particular treatment which he is, as yet, still waiting for.

Sure, he didn't have to pay for any of it (that I know of), but is the saving of money really worth the fact that he's been slowly deteriorating and living in absolute agony for two years?