:: LEAST I COULD DO FORUM ::: Union Woes - :: LEAST I COULD DO FORUM ::

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Union Woes

#1 User is offline   sohmer Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 11:44 AM

As much as I personally oppose what ‘unions’ have become in today’s day and age, late last year I was pushed to join the Writer’s Guild of Canada. I had no choice, you see, as if I did not, Canadian law dictates that I Would be ineligible to write episodes of the LICD animated series, or the Looking for Group feature film.

Seeing as how I wanted very much to do both those things, I signed up. In exchange for a percentage of my earnings and a registration free, I received a membership card, laminated at Kinko’s apparently, and a pencil (it’s true. They actually sent me a pencil). Oh, and did I mention the health insurance package that I am unable to opt out of, despite the fact that I’m already insured through Blind Ferret?

Since then, I’ve done my best to ignore the WGC, and in turn, I’m thinking the feeling has been fairly mutual. There have been get-togethers, I haven’t gone. Plenty of meetings, I’ve had shows to watch. Votes taking place, I’ve had to stay home and do my hair. You get the idea.

Still, my e-mail (along with the other 1,600 members) is in their database thus I get plenty of updates from our president. The majority (read: all) of them somehow end up in my trash bin (no idea how that happens, really). And yet, an e-mail that came in yesterday caught my attention.

In a nutshell, my guild is appearing before the CRTC on February 17th, urging them to start regulating the internet in Canada, specifically feared towards video content. Their belief is that the ISPs should be paying any creator who creates content for the web. In addition, they have come to the conclusion that Canadian internet users really only want to see Canadian content, therefore we should be restricted on what we can view online.

Essentially, the WGC wants to see New Media function in exactly the same way as traditional media.

As someone who’s been struggling with the television system for the last 3 years, I can tell you very explicitly: it simply doesn’t work. It hampers talent, overpays ‘producers’ while taking money out of the real talent budget and you inevitably end up with a watered down excuse for entertainment.

Why anyone would want to re-create the television industry is beyond me. That makes about as much sense as publishing a new newspaper these days, or putting together a new terrestrial radio station.

Say what you will about the web, and there is much to be said, it breeds innovation. The reason for that is because it’s non-regulated, because an ass like me can produce whatever he likes, however he likes in an effort to entertain others. The majority of the things we try don’t/won’t/shouldn’t work, but if 1 out of every 100 projects works, that’s a success.

You simply can’t do that in the traditional media system. It won’t let you.

So, congratulations to the WGC. Through your ignorance and short sightedness, you’ve managed to actually make me want to involve myself in a union.

Joy.

- Because I can.

Quote of the Day

“Television is called a medium because anything good on it is rare”
-Fred Allen
What would Jesus do?
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#2 User is offline   FutbolDude21586 Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 11:53 AM

You tell them, Sohmer! Don't let them break something that works!
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#3 User is offline   Evil Pig Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 11:55 AM

Very interesting... Can you appear on the 17th and voice your opinion?
He who does not love wine, wife, and song will be a fool his whole life long
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#4 User is offline   sohmer Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:00 PM

QUOTE (Evil Pig @ Jan 27 2009, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Very interesting... Can you appear on the 17th and voice your opinion?


I'm trying to see where and when I can get heard.
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#5 User is offline   J_A_X Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:04 PM

Fuck opinions, let's just drive buy and firebomb their union headquarters tongue.gif
QUOTE (Ghislord @ Feb 2 2006, 04:13 PM)
J_A_X : Perverted since 1984...


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#6 User is offline   Flying Gremlin Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:12 PM

Here's what you do:

Go to this thing on the 17th. Bring a video camera. Record. Broadcast on YouTube. Let us at the comments at the bottom. Spam every single member of the Union list with this, with the caption: "This is how big of jackasses you sound like to the rest of the world."

Repeat as necessary.
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#7 User is offline   Evil Pig Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:13 PM

There seems to be a lot of info on their site. The original deadline was December 5th for submitting comments but it seems that it's been extended until March 29th to accept replies to the comments.

I think this is it anyways.

http://www.crtc.gc.c.../n2008-11-1.htm
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#8 User is offline   Friluftshund Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:15 PM

QUOTE (sohmer @ Jan 27 2009, 05:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it simply doesn’t work. It hampers talent, overpays ‘producers’ while taking money out of the real talent budget and you inevitably end up with a watered down excuse for entertainment.


You are my god now...
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#9 User is offline   klip Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 01:47 PM

Re: Quote of the day. Ernie Kovacs had an even better one. "Television is a 'medium' because it is neither rare nor well done."
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#10 User is offline   sohmer Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 02:02 PM

QUOTE (klip @ Jan 27 2009, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Re: Quote of the day. Ernie Kovacs had an even better one. "Television is a 'medium' because it is neither rare nor well done."


Aye, that one would also have suited my mood.
What would Jesus do?
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#11 User is offline   gobbleykins Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 02:13 PM

It is my belief that if you want to get something done, you have to do it yourself. Therefore, I heartily encourage you to get involved in the union and attempt to tell them which direction they should take, even guide them or try to get in a high position of power. Obviously there will be a balance between how much time you can put into the union compared to how much time you can spend on running your business, but think of how you could help the future generations of Canadian writers!
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#12 User is offline   Malcontent Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 02:19 PM

That's some crazy-ass shit, Sohmer.

Good luck kicking their asses over it.

Honestly, I do not understand why people feel the need to regulate the shit out things, particularly things relating to art.

Unless it falls under the category of "making people 'better'" -- and anyone who's seen Serenity should know what a baaaad idea that is... Maybe these tossers need someone to go Reaver all over their asses...
Not very politically correct... but I'll never be a politician, so fuck it.
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#13 User is offline   jtstrocel Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 02:28 PM

When you go to speak at the hearing, are you going to include information about RebelFM? The story about how some laid off magazine writers suddenly producing the number one podcast on the internet clearly underlines how the rules of traditional media can't be applied to the internet. With traditional radio, print and television, you couldn't say "screw you guys, I'm starting my own <insert media here>". The power balance in that relationship made unions like the WGC relevant in their day. Now that the cost of overhead in producing media has dropped through the floor, regulation hinders rather than helps media creators.
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#14 User is offline   Gerry Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:03 PM

Here's the thing about unions -- they're only as good as the people who are active in them. You make it a point of pride that you were completely uninvolved in your union's activities, and then you're shocked, shocked, I say, that they proceed to act in a way that's against your interests.

Duh.

I'm a member of the WGAw, and honestly, it's been a godsend for writers working in television and film here in the States. If you don't believe me, compare the realities facing a writer who works in TV animation versus the realities of a writer working in live TV. And believe this, if there were no WGAw, every writer working in television and film would be treated the way animation writers are:

compensation for a half-hour animated television script (non-union): $3000 to $6000.

compensation for a half-hour live action television script: $22,300.

residuals (royalties) paid to a writer for a network rerun of a half-hour episode: $0

residuals (royalties) paid to a writer for a network rerun of a half-hour episode: $12,400.

In addition, the writer of a live-action, union show gets health insurance and contributions to a pension fund that will actually pay him a guaranteed pension, for life. As a former freelance comic book writer who had no insurance and no hope of any kind of pension, I kinda appreciate both of these things. If you want to know what the future looks like for a non-union writer or artist who doesn't have a pension, check out the Hero Initiative, and give generously -- I do.

Now, all that being said, I agree completely with your points regarding the 20th Century thinking that informs most of the new media thinking being done by unions and producers. But the way to address your concerns is to get involved and make a difference. In a world dominated by mega corporations with tremendous political clout and a penchant for trampling on the rights and future of their employees, unions are the only counterweight the average worker has -- and in the media, unless you're an owner of your own material (and even then you're only as powerful as your ability to leverage your work financially), we are all average workers.

Unions are not inherently bad for workers -- they're inherently good for workers, but they can be managed and run badly if the membership has the "not my job, mate" attitude you describe above.

I'm glad you finally decided to get involved. It's time to put your mouth where your money's going to be.
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#15 User is offline   Babaganoosh23 Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:05 PM

I would definitely encourage you to go to that meeting and voice your opinion. It may not be successful but it is better to try than let stupidity like this go unchallenged.
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#16 User is offline   Datch Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 04:05 PM

Preface: I'm an American, and don't know as much about Canadian labor laws, union laws, etc.
I'm also rarely involved in online discussions, because they bear little fruit.

That said, from what I read in rants (which are inherently easy to do, of course), it seems this Sohmer fellow might actually do something some time (which is inherently not easy to do).

The point I would make, Gerry, is that the union *necessitated* Mr. Sohmer's involvement, otherwise he would not be able to put the kind of efforts into a project that, clearly, he has quite a vested interest in.

I don't think anyone would argue that unions and similar groups *can* be good or bad; any group is obviously a function of the individuals that comprise it.

However, Mr. Sohmer didn't want to be made a part of it in the first place. There is, apparently, a monopoly somewhere, otherwise Mr. Sohmer would be able to simply write the episodes he wants to and not have to involve himself in this situation.

The fault here lies not within the union, but the fact that they have a bottleneck control over this situation.

I don't know how the Canadian legal system works, admittedly, but civil disobedience is a tried and true method of changing laws that might be problematic.

The fight to regulate the internet as medium has its pros and cons. Should there be some rules? Of course. We don't want uncensored violence, pornography, government secrets, etc. flying about without some measure of control (I leave it to people wiser than me to discover what rules there should be).

However, this problem seems to have sprung from a different issue: Mr. Sohmer's inability to work on his project in a way that he wanted to.

Again, wiser men than me shall discover the answers. Make sure though, that you're looking at the right questions when you spur yourself to action.

It's always a time saver.


...edited to add: fantastic comic, by the by.

This post has been edited by Datch: 27 January 2009 - 04:09 PM

Heaven is not the reward for a life of virtue; Hell is not the punishment for a life of sin. Life is its own reward and punishment. Deal with it.
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#17 User is offline   Taninger Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 04:57 PM

Ooof. Being in the States myself (at least for college), I never cease to be horrified by some of the comparisons I can draw.

This whole union regulation of the internet? One, it's damn hard to do effectively. Two, they'll make a lot of people VERY angry. Three, the U.S. is trying to do it, or has been, for years.

Now, I may have been away from home for a little while, but unless things have changed I remember a great deal of Canadian "culture" being along the lines of "Don't be the USA, don't be the USA, don't be the USA..." Way to ruin our culture, union guys.

In all seriousness, though, it's a ridiculous situation. One thing that has always bothered me about Canadian TV is the need to force Canadian shows on the air, even when they were inferior to other programming. I don't care much for US television, but I'd love to see more British and translated TV shows on the air... but then what little Canadian content we have would be lost. So, much as that might irritate me sometimes, I can accept that.

Doing that to the internet, though? There's a certain amount of regulation inherent in TV (the schedule) that just doesn't show up online. Why do we want to add it? Do we really want to encourage the younger generations to slip by online regulations? They will, if they have to. They always have in the past.
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#18 User is offline   Zastil Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 05:01 PM

While many of the comments have been in the vein of you going and expressing yourself at this meeting, which is very much a good thing to do, perhaps you may want to consider another possibility Sohmer.

Most news organizations put at their viewer's disposal some means to suggest a story or information that the channel/newspaper/radio should cover. Perhaps you should try this, and not just in the english media outlets, since you do seem to be in the region of Montreal, why not also apply to the french one's as well?

Won't hurt to try, and considering that Quebec always goes into an uproar when "its" artists are being pushed around...

This post has been edited by Zastil: 27 January 2009 - 05:09 PM

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#19 User is offline   KeyMaster45 Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:29 PM

Honestly I've never really understood why we here in the states aren't allowed to watch canadian television. Of course if said television was in another language I would understand. Somewhat off-topic at this point, I find tv shows from every country but america to be intelligent and witty. Though I have long grown out of watching actual cartoons I still watch [as], but was surprised one night to come across 2 shows from canada, on a network that airs clone wars which shall remain nameless >.> , and was shocked and delighted to find a show that, well seemed like had some thought put into to it.....I'm ranting, so I'll stop right there and get back on subject.

I say booo to the canadian union wanting to restrict internet viewing to just canadian websites, its stupid is what it is. While I have my own views about unions and their uselessness I won't bore you with them. Btw, I blame the WAG for f'ing up the 'supposed' last season of scrubs and making Bob Kelso retire from sacred heart, but the blame partley rests with the talentless scabs brought in by the network to keep production going; another story for another time though. As a reltaliation to your unwanted guild for their stupidity I suggest you do a comic or two about Raine and the munchkin TP'ing their headquarters to burn off some steam.

My ADD is kicking in, so I think I'll stop here
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#20 User is offline   Akusu Icon

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 06:38 PM

I wonder how many people in the WGC had straight faces when they came up with that steaming pile of shit and then had the audacity to propose making it policy.

I'm gonna have to do some research, but I really don't understand how you can be forced to pay dues to a union for something created by your company, written for your company and most importantly, written by you. No matter who follows through on the animation end of things. It sounds to me like they hold control over production... which you could reproduce through different channels and come up with the same thing, even if it happens to be more difficult.

And damned if I'm ever going to pay a union for stuff on the internet: It's too flexible, too varied and too easy to fall behind. I'd love to see them asking for dues from the millions of users on sites like Newgrounds, Youtube and the like. The internet is largely unregulated because we don't expect quality all the time. Creating regulations and then enforcing them would be not only a monumental undertaking, but so would keeping them up-to-date and relevant.

And seriously.... I only want Canadian content? What kind of crock is that. I'm already pissed off because of certain television network websites that host their shows online for free are blocked to me in Canada for some obscure reason. You know, despite free trade and the same network cramming their news and programming down our throats all the time. I can do without the news anyways.

What constitutes Canadian content anyways? Does that mean that any website with an ip outside of Canada should be blocked? Are we to become an island continent devoid of MMORPGs and the like? Our I.T. industry would curl up and die.

Like I said though, I'm gonna have to look into the Writer's Guild, because something feels very off with this whole thing, especially since that writers strike a year or two ago. I hope you do something about it Sohmer, no one should be press-ganged into associating their independant and successful business with an organization they neither support or agree with.
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